{"id":2665,"date":"2007-11-08T02:00:00","date_gmt":"2007-11-08T00:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/92.45.35.169\/dunyaca-unlu-tasarimci-defne-koz\/"},"modified":"2024-07-03T16:03:01","modified_gmt":"2024-07-03T13:03:01","slug":"dunyaca-unlu-tasarimci-defne-koz","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.kariyer.net\/kariyer-rehberi\/dunyaca-unlu-tasarimci-defne-koz\/","title":{"rendered":"D\u00fcnyaca \u00fcnl\u00fc tasar\u0131mc\u0131 ‘Defne Koz’"},"content":{"rendered":"

End\u00fcstri \u00fcr\u00fcnleri tasar\u0131m\u0131na ilginiz nas\u0131l ba\u015flad\u0131? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Anne ve babam\u0131n i\u00e7 mimar olmalar\u0131 ve mesleklerine, mimarl\u0131\u011fa, sanata, tarihe olan sayg\u0131 ve ilgileri ve bu ilgilerini \u00e7ocuklar\u0131 ile payla\u015fmalar\u0131, bilin\u00e7alt\u0131 da olsa herhalde biz \u00e7ocuklar\u0131n\u0131 k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fck ya\u015flarda etkiledi san\u0131yorum. Daha bilin\u00e7li oldu\u011fum d\u00f6nemlerdeyse onlar\u0131n b\u00fcrosunda ge\u00e7irdi\u011fim zaman\u0131n, g\u00f6rd\u00fcklerimin, hissettiklerimin, okuduklar\u0131m\u0131n da etkisi olmu\u015ftur, kim bilir! Zaten sanat\u0131n pek \u00e7ok koluna ilgim \u00e7ocuk ya\u015flarda ba\u015flad\u0131. Profesyonel olarak bale, amat\u00f6r olarak da grav\u00fcr ve grafikle ilgilendim. Ama san\u0131r\u0131m en a\u011f\u0131r basan\u0131 “product design” kelimelerinin ard\u0131ndaki gizemdi.<\/p>\n

Milan’a e\u011fitim almak, orada ya\u015famak ve \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmak tasar\u0131ma yakla\u015f\u0131m\u0131n\u0131z\u0131 nas\u0131l de\u011fi\u015ftirdi? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Hem o zamanki Domus Academy’nin bildik okullar gibi ‘okul’ olmamas\u0131, hem de “Milano ruhu”nu ya\u015famak ka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131lmaz deneyimlerdi benim i\u00e7in. Ufkumun a\u00e7\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131, ruhumun tazelendi\u011fini, heyecan\u0131m\u0131n doru\u011fa ula\u015ft\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 daha fazla hissedemezdim. Sadece tasar\u0131ma bak\u0131\u015f\u0131m\u0131 de\u011fil d\u00fcnyaya ve kendime bak\u0131\u015f a\u00e7\u0131m\u0131 da de\u011fi\u015ftirdi bu deneyimler. Domus Academy’den tam not ile mezun olmam, bana hocal\u0131k yapan ve \u0130talyan tasar\u0131m\u0131n\u0131n bug\u00fcn ‘\u0130talyan Tasar\u0131m\u0131’ olarak an\u0131lmas\u0131nda b\u00fcy\u00fck rol oynayan en b\u00fcy\u00fck \u0130talyan tasar\u0131mc\u0131lar\u0131n muhakkak bir donem Milano’da kalmam gerekti\u011fine kendi kendilerine karar vermeleri, beni orada bir d\u00f6nem daha kalmaya ve is aramaya sevk etti. Bu s\u00fcre\u00e7 beni, kurtlar\u0131n dans etti\u011fi, g\u00fc\u00e7l\u00fckler, engebelerle dolu, tasar\u0131m d\u00fcnyas\u0131n\u0131n ortas\u0131na hi\u00e7bir deste\u011fe dayanmadan, sallana sallana dengemi bulmaya y\u00f6neltti. Hac\u0131yatmaz olabilmeyi \u00f6\u011frendim. Orada yerle\u015fmi\u015f bir tasar\u0131m k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fc hissediyor insan. G\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015fam\u0131nda sokaktan ge\u00e7erken balkon demirlerine bakt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131zda bunu hissediyorsunuz. Bunu bir tart\u0131\u015fma esnas\u0131nda ya da esiniz dostunuzla yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z konu\u015fma esnas\u0131nda onlar\u0131n birikimlerinde de hissediyorsunuz. Sadece olaylara bakarak ya da mecmua kar\u0131\u015ft\u0131rarak \u00f6\u011frenilecek bir tasar\u0131m k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fc s\u00f6z konusu de\u011fil. Milano’da g\u00fc\u00e7l\u00fc bir ak\u0131m var; t\u00fcm baba st\u00fcdyolar ve onlar\u0131n yeti\u015ftirdi\u011fi bir sonraki jenerasyonlar, olan bitenler, yay\u0131nlar, sergiler bir yandan insan\u0131 \u00e7ok korkutuyor, bir yandan da m\u00fcthi\u015f cezbediyor. Korkutuyor \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc, insan bu b\u00fcy\u00fck d\u00fcnyan\u0131n i\u00e7ine nereden, nas\u0131l ve kim olarak girece\u011fini bilemiyor. Bir yandan da girdi\u011finiz andan itibaren de \u00f6ylesine keyifli ama zorluklarla dolu bir girdab\u0131n i\u00e7erisine giriyorsunuz ki isteseniz bile \u00e7\u0131kamazm\u0131\u015fs\u0131n\u0131z gibi geliyor. Sonsuz rekabetin olu\u015fturdu\u011fu ortamla birlikte, bu mesle\u011fin insandan baz\u0131 \u015feyleri al\u0131p gitti\u011fi ger\u00e7e\u011fi baki. Ama zoru ba\u015farmak daha keyif verici de\u011fil mi?<\/p>\n

\u015eimdiye kadar hangi firmalarla \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131n\u0131z? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

\u0130talya’da Pirelli, Alessi, FontanaArte, Replastic, Egizia, Foscarini, Cappellini\/Progetto Oggetto, Guzzini, Steel, RSVP, Gabbianelli, Merati, Rapsel\/Nito, Mobileffe, Liv’it, Almanya’da Authentics, WMF gibi markalara \u00e7e\u015fitli tasar\u0131mlar yapt\u0131m. Japonya’da Sharp, Nisan ve Casio ile \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131m. Turkiye’deyse Nurus, Decorums, MPD, Vitra, Alparda ve Derin i\u00e7in \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar yapt\u0131m.<\/p>\n

End\u00fcstri \u00fcr\u00fcnleri tasar\u0131m\u0131, di\u011fer tasar\u0131m t\u00fcrlerinden alanlar\u0131ndan hangi y\u00f6nlerden farkl\u0131? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Hangi tasar\u0131m alan\u0131na g\u00f6re? Material design, interface design, design management, furniture design, transport design, fashion design, graphic design, visual design, strategic design, web design, interior design… Pek \u00e7o\u011fu ile ortak yan\u0131 olmakla birlikte end\u00fcstri \u00fcr\u00fcnleri tasar\u0131m\u0131 yukar\u0131daki di\u011fer tasar\u0131m t\u00fcrlerinin bir k\u0131sm\u0131n\u0131 da b\u00fcnyesine al\u0131r. T\u00fcketicinin eline ald\u0131\u011f\u0131; evinde, ofisinde, arabas\u0131nda her g\u00fcn g\u00f6rerek beraber ya\u015fad\u0131\u011f\u0131; ya\u015fad\u0131k\u00e7a farkl\u0131 hisler hissedebildi\u011fi \u00fcr\u00fcnlerden olu\u015fmakta; bunun i\u00e7inde materyal de var, interface de, grafik de…<\/p>\n

Tasar\u0131m, g\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015fam\u0131n bir par\u00e7as\u0131; g\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015famda kulland\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z ara\u00e7 gere\u00e7ler oldu\u011funa g\u00f6re bizim g\u00f6revimiz her g\u00fcn yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z \u015feylere bir kalite katmak. G\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015famda \u00fcr\u00fcnlerinizin ba\u015fkalar\u0131 taraf\u0131ndan kullan\u0131lmas\u0131 \u00f6nemli. Kullan\u0131l\u0131rken de t\u00fcketiciye farkl\u0131 de\u011ferleri, hisleri ya\u015fatt\u0131rabilmek, \u00f6nemsiz g\u00f6z\u00fcken de\u011ferlerin, detaylar\u0131n \u00f6nemini ba\u015fkalar\u0131na hissettirebilmek \u00f6nemli. Tasarlarken kimi zaman \u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fcn\u00fcze bilginizi aktar\u0131rs\u0131n\u0131z, kimi zaman ise yeni teknikleri yeni materyalleri deneyerek, ara\u015ft\u0131rarak uygulamas\u0131n\u0131 \u00f6\u011frenirsiniz. D\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcn ki mesle\u011finizin bilgi s\u0131n\u0131r\u0131 yok. S\u00fcrekli \u00f6\u011frenmeyi gerektiren bir mesle\u011finiz var.. Eh \u00f6\u011frenmek kadar zengin bir \u015fey olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131na g\u00f6re fena bir meslek de\u011fil end\u00fcstri \u00fcr\u00fcnleri tasar\u0131mc\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131.<\/p>\n

Taklit \u00fcr\u00fcnler hakk\u0131nda ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorsunuz? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Taklit; d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnce k\u0131s\u0131rl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131n tembellik ile birle\u015fimi olsa gerek. Asl\u0131nda s\u00f6ylenebilecek pek fazla s\u00f6z yok ama taklit edildi\u011finizde ho\u015funuza bile gidiyor. Taklit eden ki\u015fi bir yerde sizi y\u00fcceltiyor; d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncenizin di\u011ferlerinden \u00fcst\u00fcn oldu\u011funu ister istemez size ispat ediveriyor.<\/p>\n

Tasar\u0131mlar\u0131n\u0131zda T\u00fcrk gelene\u011finden de yararlan\u0131yorsunuz ama postmodern bir yakla\u015f\u0131m\u0131n\u0131z oldu\u011fu da s\u00f6ylenemez. Bunu nas\u0131l ba\u015far\u0131yorsunuz?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Osmanl\u0131 k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcnden geliyorum ve Avrupa’n\u0131n \u00e7a\u011fda\u015f ve \u00f6nemli bir merkezinde, Milano`da, ve Amerika’da, Boston’da tasar\u0131mc\u0131 olarak \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131rken de kendi k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcm\u00fcn hat\u0131ras\u0131n\u0131 unutmamaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131yorum. Bir obje tasarlarken geleneksel d\u00fcnya, antik k\u00fclt\u00fcr d\u00fcnyas\u0131 beni \u00e7ok cezbediyor, ama tasarlad\u0131\u011f\u0131m objenin -e\u011fer ki bir g\u00fcn “mass-product”a d\u00f6n\u00fc\u015f\u00fcrse- end\u00fcstriyel materyaller ile \u00fcretilece\u011finin ve d\u00fcnyadaki “aseptic department store”lara da\u011f\u0131t\u0131laca\u011f\u0131n\u0131n da bilincindeyim. Materyal k\u00fclt\u00fcr, yani g\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015famda kulland\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z objeler, davran\u0131\u015flar, eski gelenek g\u00f6renekler, bir tasar\u0131mc\u0131 olarak benim i\u00e7in en \u00f6nemli referans, ama g\u00fcnl\u00fck ya\u015fam i\u00e7in yeni vizyonlar sunmak mecburiyetinde oldu\u011fumu biliyor, bunun sorumlulu\u011funu ta\u015f\u0131yorum. Ve bu, bug\u00fcn bizlerin vermesi gereken bir m\u00fccadele oldu\u011funa inan\u0131yorum. Yeni vizyonlar sunarken e\u011fer tasar\u0131m\u0131n derin k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fc \u00f6\u011frenmeden, y\u00fczeysel bilgiler ile yola \u00e7\u0131k\u0131l\u0131rsa, d\u00fc\u015f\u00fclebilecek en b\u00fcy\u00fck tehlike, stilizm. Uluslararas\u0131 stilin k\u00f6t\u00fc kopyalar\u0131 ya da \u00f6z\u00fcn\u00fc kavramadan Osmanl\u0131 stilinin detaylar\u0131n\u0131 basit bir \u015fekilde kopya edilmesi gibi b\u00fcy\u00fck yanl\u0131\u015fl\u0131klar bunun olabilecek sonu\u00e7lar\u0131. Bundan ka\u00e7\u0131nmak i\u00e7in tasar\u0131m k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fc derinli\u011fine bilmek gerek ve lokal k\u00fclt\u00fcr, onun sembolleri, \u00fcretim teknikleri, insanlar\u0131n davran\u0131\u015flar\u0131, ananeler, rit\u00fceller aras\u0131nda ba\u011f kurmak gerekir.<\/p>\n

Tasar\u0131m dilinizi nas\u0131l tan\u0131ml\u0131yorsunuz?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Ben, bilin\u00e7alt\u0131mda kendi k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcm\u00fc ya\u015farken, tasarlad\u0131klar\u0131mla kendimi anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131m bir dilim var; kulland\u0131\u011f\u0131m dil; \u00e7a\u011fda\u015f, yal\u0131n, agresif olmayan, stilizimden uzak, zamana dayan\u0131kl\u0131, basit ama banal olmayan; kimi zaman materyaller ile, ya da tipolojiler ile innovatiftir; kimi zaman ise yakla\u015f\u0131m\u0131yla, fikirleriyle bir ruhu yans\u0131tan? Bu dilin zengin olmas\u0131 laz\u0131m ki yapt\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131zla kar\u015f\u0131n\u0131zdakileri s\u0131kmay\u0131n. Bu dilin derin, yo\u011fun olmas\u0131 laz\u0131m ki size farkl\u0131 bir duyguyu, hissi, d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceyi ya\u015fatt\u0131rabilsin, bu dilin bir b\u00fct\u00fcn olmas\u0131 laz\u0131m ki bir \u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fcn\u00fcz bir di\u011fer \u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fcn\u00fcz\u00fc tutsun, \u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fcn siz oldu\u011funu anlas\u0131nlar. Bu anlat\u0131m ifadesi ile her g\u00fcn yap\u0131lana bir kalite eklemek, hissiyat yaratacak g\u00fcnl\u00fck objeler tasarlamak, tasarlarken de \u00fcr\u00fcnlerin nerede bitece\u011fini, nas\u0131l kullan\u0131laca\u011f\u0131n\u0131, nas\u0131l insanlar\u0131 yormamalar\u0131 gerekti\u011fini d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnmek benim amac\u0131m. \u0130deal \u00fcr\u00fcn, san\u0131r\u0131m, uyarlanabilen, her g\u00fcn kullan\u0131lan, kulland\u0131k\u00e7a; ele al\u0131nd\u0131k\u00e7a, \u0131\u015f\u0131\u011f\u0131nda kitap okunduk\u00e7a insan\u0131 heyecanland\u0131ran hatta belki \u015fa\u015f\u0131rtan \u00fcr\u00fcn?<\/p>\n

Pirelli i\u00e7in tasarlad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z lastiklerde T\u00fcrk dantellerinden grafikler kulland\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z\u0131 duymu\u015ftum, bu do\u011fru mu?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Pirelli “t\u0131r kamyonlar\u0131 i\u00e7in lastikte grafik” projesini verdi\u011finde ilk olarak bizim kamyon \u015fof\u00f6rlerimizi ve son derece domestik bir ortam\u0131 and\u0131ran \u015fof\u00f6r mekan\u0131n\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcm. Adam hakl\u0131, \u00f6mr\u00fc yollarda ge\u00e7iyor. Eh ne yaps\u0131n, gecesini g\u00fcnd\u00fcz\u00fcn\u00fc ge\u00e7irdi\u011fi bu mekan\u0131, \u00f6zlemini duydu\u011fu evinin ve sevdiklerinin e\u015fyalar\u0131 ve an\u0131lar\u0131yla donat\u0131yor; oraya buraya s\u0131k\u0131\u015ft\u0131rd\u0131\u011f\u0131 yapma \u00e7i\u00e7ekleri, sevgilisinin, kar\u0131s\u0131n\u0131n, \u00e7ocuklar\u0131n\u0131n foto\u011fraflar\u0131, koltu\u011funa att\u0131\u011f\u0131 eli\u015fi minderi, direksiyon mahallini kaplayan annesinin t\u0131\u011flad\u0131\u011f\u0131 dantel \u00f6rt\u00fcs\u00fc vs… \u0130\u015fte bu y\u00fczden geli\u015ftirilebilecek tema olarak danteli d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnm\u00fc\u015ft\u00fcm; y\u0131llar\/dolamba\u00e7l\u0131 yollar\/ t\u0131r\/ kuvvet\/ sab\u0131r… Ve bunlar\u0131n \u00fczerine tam z\u0131t zarafette ancak bir yerde ayn\u0131 eme\u011fi \/ sabr\u0131 \/ zaman\u0131 isteyen danteller… Ve Pirelli’ye bu temay\u0131 sunmu\u015ftum; ancak hi\u00e7 de tahmin etmedi\u011fim bir yorum ile kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131m; “Sizin kamyon \u015fof\u00f6rlerini bilmeyiz ama bizim \u015fof\u00f6rlerimiz \u00e7ok ma\u00e7odur!” Aman dedik, yanl\u0131\u015f anlamay\u0131n bizimkiler sizinkilerden daha ma\u00e7odur… Ama bakt\u0131m i\u015f ba\u015fka y\u00f6ne do\u011fru sar\u0131yor, bunun \u00fczerine tam tersine bir fikirle d\u00f6vmelerden yola \u00e7\u0131karak bu me\u015fhur t\u0131r lasti\u011fini Medusa ba\u015fl\u0131 y\u0131lanlarla donatt\u0131k!<\/p>\n

Sizin i\u00e7in \u00e7ok \u00f6zel olan, \u00e7ok sevdi\u011finiz bir tasar\u0131m\u0131n\u0131z var m\u0131?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

“\u00c7ocuklar\u0131n\u0131zdan hangisini daha \u00e7ok seviyorsunuz?” sorusuyla kar\u015f\u0131la\u015fan bir ana gibi ben de herhangi bir ay\u0131m yapmad\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131, hepsine ayni sevgi, ayni ilgi ile yakla\u015ft\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131 memnuniyetle itiraf edebilirim.<\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye’de kalsayd\u0131n\u0131z yine d\u00fcnyaca \u00fcnl\u00fc bir tasar\u0131mc\u0131 olabilir miydiniz sizce?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"B\u00f6yle tan\u0131mlan\u0131nca insan kendini bir \u015fey san\u0131veriyor! Te\u015fekk\u00fcrler… Az \u00f6nce bahsetti\u011fim gibi Milano’nun bana katt\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u00e7ok \u015fey var; tasar\u0131m k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fc, ya\u015fayan tarih, bilgi, deneyim, tutku, heyecan… Ama sadece bu da yetmez bir yarat\u0131c\u0131 i\u00e7in; T\u00fcrkiye’ye mahsus de\u011fil s\u00f6yleyece\u011fim ama d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncem; insan belirli bir yere ba\u011flan\u0131p kal\u0131rsa, kendini geli\u015ftiremeyece\u011fidir… Bir yere ba\u011fl\u0131 kalmak, fiziksel bir durum olsa bile, ruhu da etkiledi\u011fi muhakkak. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla gezmek g\u00f6rmek, merakl\u0131 olmak, d\u00fcnyaya a\u00e7\u0131lmak, ba\u015fka k\u00fclt\u00fcrleri g\u00f6rerek, yasayarak \u00f6\u011frenmek hele bir yarat\u0131c\u0131 i\u00e7in ka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131lmaz. Zira iyi bir yarat\u0131c\u0131 olmak i\u00e7in pek \u00e7ok veriye sahip olman\u0131z gerekli… E\u011fer ara\u015ft\u0131rmac\u0131, merakl\u0131, ilgili de\u011filseniz; genel k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fcz ve de konu ile ilgili birikiminiz yoksa; malzeme bilgisi, uygulama tekniklerine ait ilginiz, bilginiz , deneyiminiz yoksa; d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceyi yarat\u0131c\u0131l\u0131\u011fa \u00e7eviremiyorsan\u0131z; kendinizden, deneyimlerinizden, ya\u015fam\u0131n\u0131zdan etkilenemeyip ba\u015fkalar\u0131n\u0131 \u00f6rnek alarak kopyalama yap\u0131yorsan\u0131z; yarat\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131zda bir ki\u015fili\u011fi yakalayam\u0131yorsan\u0131z, ba\u015far\u0131l\u0131 olma \u015fans\u0131n\u0131z\u0131n d\u00fc\u015f\u00fck olaca\u011f\u0131n\u0131 tahmin ediyorum. Nerede olursan\u0131z olun…<\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye’ye d\u00f6nmeyi planl\u0131yor musunuz?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Niye olmas\u0131n? Ama plan yapmak pek bana g\u00f6re de\u011fil. T\u00fcrkiye’den sonra \u015fimdiye kadar Milano’da b\u00fcy\u00fck bir keyifle ya\u015fad\u0131m, ama bu demek de\u011fil ki ya\u015fam\u0131m\u0131n sonuna kadar burada kalaca\u011f\u0131m. Zira \u015fu ara daha \u00e7ok Amerika’da bulunuyorum.<\/p>\n\n

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End\u00fcstri \u00fcr\u00fcnleri tasar\u0131m\u0131na ilginiz nas\u0131l ba\u015flad\u0131? Anne ve babam\u0131n i\u00e7 mimar olmalar\u0131 ve mesleklerine, mimarl\u0131\u011fa, sanata, tarihe olan sayg\u0131 ve ilgileri ve bu ilgilerini \u00e7ocuklar\u0131 ile payla\u015fmalar\u0131, bilin\u00e7alt\u0131 da olsa herhalde biz \u00e7ocuklar\u0131n\u0131 k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fck ya\u015flarda etkiledi san\u0131yorum. Daha bilin\u00e7li oldu\u011fum d\u00f6nemlerdeyse onlar\u0131n b\u00fcrosunda ge\u00e7irdi\u011fim zaman\u0131n, g\u00f6rd\u00fcklerimin, hissettiklerimin, okuduklar\u0131m\u0131n da etkisi olmu\u015ftur, kim bilir! Zaten sanat\u0131n […]<\/p>\n\n

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